Join our Home Musicians community now!

Hello Guest - Register or Log-in now, to download the tunes, add your comments, ask questions or share advice with our home musicians community. You'll also be able to upload your original music, home studio photos, and post your own forum topics and blogs. [Login to hide note!]

Extreme Programming in Reason 4.0

While working in Web development I had the opportunity to learn a little about extreme programming and thought I would sprout the idea of extreme programming in Reason 4.0 here at MakeTunes.

It would work something like this: Two users would log into the same desktop and run Reason. Each user would have control of the computer from their individual workstation and work together tweaking, making instruments, or doing anything else to the same piece of music in real-time.

I don't know if it is possible to do over the Internet, but it would sure be a cool way to collaborate. Let me know what you think.


CapricornOne's picture

Might be able to do that using the remote access function built into windows. Don't ask me how, but that's what the remote access program is meant to do... exactly that.

I've been thinking of something similar to what you want to do. Produce and record an album using artists and musicians from all over with out any single one being in the same studio... done all via high speed network connections. Cisco Systems can do video over the net in high quality, so audio should be easier, right? Less info to stream. Cisco has done amazing things with VoIP technology where the V now stands for video as well as voice. AoIP? I think that this will be the next fore front in recording technology. If something like this could get off the ground with results that meet industry standards, we will see a revolution in music and recording.

Be good... or just good at it...
You keep it pimp... I'm a keep it gangata!

http://www.myspace.com/1andonlycapricornone

ATOTS's picture

I was thinking Remote Desktop would be perfect for a one-off. It might also be the only way to gain complete control of the software without built-in networking funtionality - similar to multi-player gaming. I'm going to try it.

DjWillieF's picture

This is an awesome idea!!

heegs's picture

I like the idea but doubt if remote desktop is the best tool for this, let me know how you get on.
Cisco (as well as Microsoft BTW) have done a lot of amazing as well as rather stupid things on the underlying infrastructure side of things but aren't exactly players when it comes to distributed high-quality media manipulation (video, assets, animation, audio)...they do business-style "if it's audible it's fine" teleconferencing and the likes, but hardly something to suite any decent media quality, be it video or audio, unless you bypass remote desktop audio and stick a good real-time compressing encoder in between in some way or another.
Thomson, Avid, DigiDesign, etc. all have their proprietary ways of doing this far better, all of 'm incompatible with just about anything else and at high-end priceing.
Sound quality from a remote machine without anything added to remote desktop will be poor so you'll probably end up transferring the file before really being able to check it out...perhaps consider simple file-based co-operation through some sort of groupware and/or revisions control app...?

"I blow minds for a living..." (Jello Biafra, 1991)
...or at least try to (me, just now)

CapricornOne's picture

With todays speeds in networking, yeah you'll probably get less than perfect quality. But everyday it gets faster. Verizon has 20mbps up and down residential service in NY right now. It's f'n incredible!!! If all party's were working on a system like that, real-time audio recording over the internet would be possible. It's all about the interface software and proper hardware. Probably hafta multiplex your ethernet connection to get a static stream up and static stream down out of your system. Then you'd hafta have some serious software... Windows might not be an optimal OS for this, but a mac or hell best option, if someone could port industry standard recording software to Linux (Let me know if they have that, cuz it would be great if they did!) then you'd have a very good chance of doing this... This is years away from beign implemented, but if people like us are have a discussion like this. then you now it's somewhere on the horizon.

It'll do what it do till it done
You keep it pimp... I'm a keep it gangata!

http://www.myspace.com/1andonlycapricornone

ATOTS's picture

I tried it out on my network and got it to work pretty well connecting to my PC from my laptop. My guess is that it would work reasonably well over the Internet if two Windows XP boxes with similar memory and sound cards connected to a third dedicated box that has Reason installed on an administrator account, and is configured to support multiple Remote Desktop connections. One caveat is that bandwidth will get bottlenecked by distributing across two connections at the host box.

Are sounds loaded into memory on guest machine while using Remote Desktop? This would be a significant factor in regard to bandwidth issues - latency and audio quality.

BTW, The easiest way to extreme program in Reason is to put splitters on your monitor, keyboard, and mouse. You can also connect both usb and ps2 mouse/keyboard at the same time. It works good if your producing with someone in-house.

CapricornOne's picture

So all i need is a third box... hmmm... If i clone my first machine to another tower set it up the way you said... Yeah i think i got it. cool beans I might try this.

It'll do what it do till it done
You keep it pimp... I'm a keep it gangata!

http://www.myspace.com/1andonlycapricornone

ATOTS's picture

Cool! Hit me up if you need anything.

You will have to run IIS to use Remote Desktop, and VPN set up to access your WinXp box from the Internet. I found this article about setting up multiple Remote Desktop connections helpful also.

http://www.golod.com/2005/10/enabling-multiple-remote-desktop-sessions-i...

Let me know how it goes.

heegs's picture

Did some testing on this myself as well, since I'm looking for a good alternative to media oriented high-end stuff to work on a single project with geographically spread out people in Reason. A long-time personal and musical friend that I've been working on projects with for ages has recently moved from around the corner to a different city, so personal gain here as well ;-)
The biggest drawback in using XP remote desktop for this including audio isn't even the quality of the audio, it's decent enough to all hear what's going on. Its the way they encapsulate the audio using a inefficient form of codec as well as RDP in general which can be extremely hard to control over the public Internet...it makes it pretty crappy on most consumer-to-consumer connections with less than at least 2mbps upstream capacity (which is why they removed the two-way audio on Remote Assistance and Remote Desktop again in Vista BTW).
So...deciding I really wanted a more workable solution I tested another two options:

- PC Anwhere 12.1 with full audio support:

Pros: has better encapsulation, uses less bandwidth, runs on Linux, Win and Mac, is a doddle to set-up and comes with very handy additional functions for collab work, like scheduled syncing of designated folders, basic version control, etc....all very handy for local copies of samples, rough cuts, patches, etc. etc and a hell of a lot faster than remote MS file-sharing and syncing utils.

Con: costs rather serious money, though I'm sure you'll find a way to get around that one for hobby purposes (ahem :-) )

- VNC remoting client/server for screen updates with a separate shoutcast server for audio streaming local output so you can get at the audio using WinAMP or VLC instead of integrated. Most of the same perks as PC Anywhere with better audio streaming quality at equal or lower total bitrates, but there's one BIG....

...Con: a nightmare to have to set-up and figure out how to use if you're not already running a local Shoutcast server. I did, but if it's the first time you've ever dealt with stuff like this, I'd advise against it and go for high-bandwidth Remote Assistance/Desktop or PC Anywhere (preferred).

Soooo...that's a wrap I think, if there's any other free/cheap/easily available and configurable tools for something like this anyone knows about, pitch in..ideal tools to really work on something simultaneously instead of mailing/uploading/checking/etc. etc. and far less overkill than the high-end Avid/

Cheers,

H

"I blow minds for a living..." (Jello Biafra, 1991)
...or at least try to (me, just now)

CapricornOne's picture

This might be a dead topic by now, but I just stumbled across this:
http://www.ninjam.com/

It allows its users to connect to one another, via broadband internet, and jam. It has not been tested by me, but there is examples on their web site of music recorded using this protocol. It seems a little awkward, but it might be cool to screw with. It's also cross platform, so if you have a mac and your buddy has a PC you're all good! Looks pretty cool!

Be good... or just good at it
You keep it pimp... I'm a keep it gangsta!

http://www.myspace.com/1andonlycapricornone

Hello Guest - Register or Log-in now, to download the tunes, add your comments, ask questions or share advice with our home musicians community. You'll also be able to upload your original music, home studio photos, and post your own forum topics and blogs. [Login to hide note!]


Donations made to MakeTunes by the following members - check out their music to show your appreciation of their support of our community!
Amittai - Ed - Audiohead - Julian Angel - Giechi Dan Productions - Mike_S - Bill - JonnyLightning - Illusive Mind - DanstheTsar - IngridTornado - Geomatic - Almighty Pattern - m1ch431 - dammedifiknow - coolboy - DeletedTrack - heegs - MarCoast Beats.

To help support MakeTunes, please consider donating. Thanks.